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ust a few months ago, politicians, economists, and some analysts claimed financial investors in oil futures were the market equivalent of warty trolls, operating in the shadows and screwing the unsuspecting American consumer by driving up the price of oil [1] for investment gains. Legislators in Congress held hearings to denounce the speculators and their evil art [2].
Speculators' defenders—other economists, a handful of hardy columnists, and the bulk of bank analysts—called those critics nitwits who just plain don't understand how markets work [3]. Millions of new car drivers in China and India and the world's dwindling supply of petroleum were to blame for oil's astonishing rise, they said.
Since then, oil prices have tanked about 70 percent. So can't we now concede that one side was right and one was wrong? Hah.
A financial layperson could be forgiven for assuming that such a steep and rapid drop, with a relatively minor drop in demand for crude, proves that the run-up was indeed a speculative investment bubble rather than driven by traditional supply-and-demand factors. A pox on speculators, then.
But putting an end to the debate is not so easy. Oil's drop, it seems, has mainly served to calcify the positions on both sides. Instead of coming to a consensus, they're both still convinced that they are right.
"It was never speculators," said Joseph Nocera, the New York Times columnist who dubbed the congressional hearings into speculators' role in high oil prices "wonderful theater [4]" in June and subtly compared the blaming of speculators to anti-Semitism, saying that "centuries ago, it was Shylock" who was vilified.
If anything, the drop in oil prices "debunks" the speculator theory, he said in a recent interview. Prices, he said, are still being driven by "psychology," not speculation.
On the other hand: "Yes, I was right," said Ed Wallace, a columnist for Business Week and the Fort Worth Star Telegram who has been a steadfast critic of speculators and their impact on markets. In May [5], he said regulators and journalists were getting snowed by banks into believing that speculators weren't influencing oil prices.
"There was no difference between the run up in the price of oil, homes, the stock market or any other commodities," Wallace said in an e-mail. "Everyone accepts it as fact on the other issues, but only a few have come around on oil." Wallace added that the people who agreed with him "still do" and those who don't "aren't going to come around."
Fadel Gheit, an Oppenheimer managing director, is a poster boy for the blame-the-speculators crowd. One of the earliest, most vociferous critics of speculators, he has long maintained that $50 a barrel is the real price of oil. "The run-up in oil prices was caused by the same financial players who caused the global financial crisis," he said.
Not surprisingly, he had a difficult year establishing his credibility before prices started to fall. "It was so hard for me to go and meet with investors," Mr Gheit said. "I went to London in April"—when oil neared $120 a barrel—"and I was almost thrown out of people's offices," he said.
Since oil prices tanked, not a single one of his opponents has had "the courtesy or decency to at least say, ‘You know what? You're right. And you know what? We were wrong,' " he fumes.
That's because they don't believe they are wrong. In March of this year, Goldman Sachs analysts said that if the economic stars were aligned, prices could even reach $200 a barrel, and in May they reiterated that view, citing geopolitical factors, including declining production in some countries.
Despite the significant tumble, Goldman Sachs is still pointing to the basics of supply and demand as drivers. A December report says, "We believe that the exceptional fluctuations in oil prices during the past year are largely fundamentally driven and will likely continue to characterize the oil sector in the medium to longer term."
Robert Bryce, the managing editor of the Energy Tribune, a magazine and Web site devoted to the energy industry, may be the only participant in the debate to change sides. He, too, blamed supply and demand this summer, but in a December column [6], he said it has become "abundantly obvious" that speculators were a key driver of the surge in oil prices. "So, to be clear, I was wrong," he added.
Predicting high oil prices before their plummet hasn't necessarily hurt any careers. Money manager Stephen Leeb also forecast $200 oil and wrote a book about how to "thrive" when that happens, warning that the last dregs of the world's oil supply will be as in demand as the Donner Party's last crate of food. Despite the drop the book is getting four-star reviews on Amazon.com. Leeb said that he still expects prices to reach the $200 level "sooner rather than later." The collapse in prices has "forced many producers to shut-in supply that otherwise would have come on stream," he said in an e-mailed response to questions.
Even economists are divided on the issue. Ramgopal Agarwala, a former World Bank economist who is senior adviser to an emerging-markets think tank in New Delhi, has often bristled at the blame assigned to India and other emerging markets for the oil-price spike. The oil drop "absolutely" proves that high prices were the fault of speculators, he said. "Fundamentals have not changed that much," he said.
Investors have poured several hundred billion dollars into commodities markets in recent years. Many of these money managers bet on market movements, essentially saying that rising prices will continue to rise and falling ones to fall. These types of investors can, in general, exacerbate price movements, both up and down, far beyond the range created by users and producers of any commodity. What's amazing, though, is that no one can really agree about how much, if at all, they influenced oil prices.
With both sides entrenched and unyielding, the debate may never come to a satisfying conclusion. The financial crisis and the auto-industry collapse also have overshadowed the fight. And now that the price of gasoline in the United States has fallen below $2 in most cases, no one cares anymore what's driving the price of oil.
"We're happy with cheap gas," said Gheit. No one is thinking about the "billions of dollars that were just sucked up" by investment banks who were speculating on oil, he said.
www.thebigmoney.com/articles...tor-sport
Speculators' defenders—other economists, a handful of hardy columnists, and the bulk of bank analysts—called those critics nitwits who just plain don't understand how markets work [3]. Millions of new car drivers in China and India and the world's dwindling supply of petroleum were to blame for oil's astonishing rise, they said.
Since then, oil prices have tanked about 70 percent. So can't we now concede that one side was right and one was wrong? Hah.
A financial layperson could be forgiven for assuming that such a steep and rapid drop, with a relatively minor drop in demand for crude, proves that the run-up was indeed a speculative investment bubble rather than driven by traditional supply-and-demand factors. A pox on speculators, then.
But putting an end to the debate is not so easy. Oil's drop, it seems, has mainly served to calcify the positions on both sides. Instead of coming to a consensus, they're both still convinced that they are right.
"It was never speculators," said Joseph Nocera, the New York Times columnist who dubbed the congressional hearings into speculators' role in high oil prices "wonderful theater [4]" in June and subtly compared the blaming of speculators to anti-Semitism, saying that "centuries ago, it was Shylock" who was vilified.
If anything, the drop in oil prices "debunks" the speculator theory, he said in a recent interview. Prices, he said, are still being driven by "psychology," not speculation.
On the other hand: "Yes, I was right," said Ed Wallace, a columnist for Business Week and the Fort Worth Star Telegram who has been a steadfast critic of speculators and their impact on markets. In May [5], he said regulators and journalists were getting snowed by banks into believing that speculators weren't influencing oil prices.
"There was no difference between the run up in the price of oil, homes, the stock market or any other commodities," Wallace said in an e-mail. "Everyone accepts it as fact on the other issues, but only a few have come around on oil." Wallace added that the people who agreed with him "still do" and those who don't "aren't going to come around."
Fadel Gheit, an Oppenheimer managing director, is a poster boy for the blame-the-speculators crowd. One of the earliest, most vociferous critics of speculators, he has long maintained that $50 a barrel is the real price of oil. "The run-up in oil prices was caused by the same financial players who caused the global financial crisis," he said.
Not surprisingly, he had a difficult year establishing his credibility before prices started to fall. "It was so hard for me to go and meet with investors," Mr Gheit said. "I went to London in April"—when oil neared $120 a barrel—"and I was almost thrown out of people's offices," he said.
Since oil prices tanked, not a single one of his opponents has had "the courtesy or decency to at least say, ‘You know what? You're right. And you know what? We were wrong,' " he fumes.
That's because they don't believe they are wrong. In March of this year, Goldman Sachs analysts said that if the economic stars were aligned, prices could even reach $200 a barrel, and in May they reiterated that view, citing geopolitical factors, including declining production in some countries.
Despite the significant tumble, Goldman Sachs is still pointing to the basics of supply and demand as drivers. A December report says, "We believe that the exceptional fluctuations in oil prices during the past year are largely fundamentally driven and will likely continue to characterize the oil sector in the medium to longer term."
Robert Bryce, the managing editor of the Energy Tribune, a magazine and Web site devoted to the energy industry, may be the only participant in the debate to change sides. He, too, blamed supply and demand this summer, but in a December column [6], he said it has become "abundantly obvious" that speculators were a key driver of the surge in oil prices. "So, to be clear, I was wrong," he added.
Predicting high oil prices before their plummet hasn't necessarily hurt any careers. Money manager Stephen Leeb also forecast $200 oil and wrote a book about how to "thrive" when that happens, warning that the last dregs of the world's oil supply will be as in demand as the Donner Party's last crate of food. Despite the drop the book is getting four-star reviews on Amazon.com. Leeb said that he still expects prices to reach the $200 level "sooner rather than later." The collapse in prices has "forced many producers to shut-in supply that otherwise would have come on stream," he said in an e-mailed response to questions.
Even economists are divided on the issue. Ramgopal Agarwala, a former World Bank economist who is senior adviser to an emerging-markets think tank in New Delhi, has often bristled at the blame assigned to India and other emerging markets for the oil-price spike. The oil drop "absolutely" proves that high prices were the fault of speculators, he said. "Fundamentals have not changed that much," he said.
Investors have poured several hundred billion dollars into commodities markets in recent years. Many of these money managers bet on market movements, essentially saying that rising prices will continue to rise and falling ones to fall. These types of investors can, in general, exacerbate price movements, both up and down, far beyond the range created by users and producers of any commodity. What's amazing, though, is that no one can really agree about how much, if at all, they influenced oil prices.
With both sides entrenched and unyielding, the debate may never come to a satisfying conclusion. The financial crisis and the auto-industry collapse also have overshadowed the fight. And now that the price of gasoline in the United States has fallen below $2 in most cases, no one cares anymore what's driving the price of oil.
"We're happy with cheap gas," said Gheit. No one is thinking about the "billions of dollars that were just sucked up" by investment banks who were speculating on oil, he said.
www.thebigmoney.com/articles...tor-sport
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Re: Remember the nasty fight over oil speculators?
Wed, January 14, 2009 - 9:18 PMThere was a good 60 minutes piece that put the peak and the collapse on speculation. I can't see how anyone can think differently at this point in time. However the current low price for oil has already forced oil companies to cut back on oil development and drilling. The problem is being compounded by tight credit markets. This will very shortly lead to under supply and begin a new peak driven by supply/demand. The problem is that speculators tend to drive peaks higher and valleys lower. A less volatile price would be more beneficial for both consumers and producers. I don't know how you can regulate this. I think that all we can hope for is the speculators have been scared out of the market and won't return for awhile. There may be ways to moderate speculation, but it is often hard to tell if these kinds of rules will ultimately cause more problems than they solve. -
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Re: Remember the nasty fight over oil speculators?
Wed, January 14, 2009 - 10:19 PMWell there are people who question this because they believe that a free market works. they blame the entire rise on peak oil.
Myself I believe that there is a fraction of last years peak prices due to peak oil and supply and a fraction due to speculation. Determining that exact number will be difficult because of the problems that caused the problems.
How do you regulate this. Well for one by regulating it. The futures trades in oil like the derivatives market is now outside the realm of regulation. Thanks to some very dirty politicians (gee the Republicans are at it again huh) and dear Mr. Clinton giving into them. (But all that pressure from Ken Starr didn't have anything to do with that).
If the futures trades in oil were regulated internationally and we got all the hot money out of commodities trading and only in the hands of the people who actually used the products then we would see a price that was set by supply and demand. -
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Re: Remember the nasty fight over oil speculators?
Thu, January 15, 2009 - 8:29 AMFunny. Since we do produce but import a lot more in the US. The only place for the rich to put their money was in Mortgages, including the investment houses and banks. Once the mortgage bubble collapsed, causing banks to have problems, everyone who has money in the world that was investing in Houses, moved their money to Oil.
Where else would they put their money?
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Re: Remember the nasty fight over oil speculators?
Thu, January 15, 2009 - 6:58 AM"There was a good 60 minutes piece that put the peak and the collapse on speculation. I can't see how anyone can think differently at this point in time."
well, it seems this post more or less admits that I am right. Peak oil had nothing to do with the spike in oil prices this year. And now you admit to many peaks and valleys which are related to drilling and exploration, not peak oil. I guess we can close this tribe now and go home. The hostile expert testimony has confirmed the position of the other side. -
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Re: Remember the nasty fight over oil speculators?
Sun, February 1, 2009 - 9:56 PM>>"well, it seems this post more or less admits that I am right. Peak oil had nothing to do with the spike in oil prices this year."<<
I am sure some people here did claim the high oil price last summer was because we had reached peak oil production, but I never made that claim. I simply pointed out the fact the the historical trends show peak oil should arrive within the next 40 years. Predicting the exact peak is difficult. It could be very soon, but being optimistic I have always believed and stated here that the peak is most likely 30 to 40 years away. I believe it is prudent to plan for this now, rather than react when it occurs. There is actually no down side to this as if we develop alternative energy sources we strengthen our country and take some of the economic power away from countries who are not really friendly towards us.
I also pointed out, Dan that even if we are not at peak oil we may reach a point were demand growth overruns supply growth which would have the same effect as peak oil. The more remote and deeper fields that are now responsible for most supply growth will take more time and money to develop. With the current finance situation and low oil price, this actually becomes an even stronger possibility. Oil companies cannot develop future reserves without financing. The company I work for was running nearly 40 rigs last August. This year they will be running fewer than 10, trying to keep going strictly from internal cash flow, as no money is available from banks. They have plenty of good places to drill, but they have no choice but to cut back. The effects of not drilling now are going to severely impact future supply and then the price will skyrocket again with or without rampant speculation. All of this, of course, has nothing to do with peak oil. -
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Re: Remember the nasty fight over oil speculators?
Mon, February 2, 2009 - 8:12 AMI understand Rene that you have a far more balanced view on the subject of peak oil. You are the only real "expert" this tribe has. The others here got tired of looking foolish so they turned tail and created a moderated tribe where they can spout nonsense all day with inpunity.
The price of oil is too low now, this is not going to last as we all know but it is good for many people who are realing from job cutbacks, sky rocketing fuel prices etc..
As you know, I am optimistic about the future of oil discovery. The biggest issue will be if politicians spend tax payer money "chasing after the wind" rather than digging for that deep oil (and encourageing nuclear energy plant buildup) you mentioned below. O'bama seems bent upon the former with a $400 billion dollar "stimilus" for global warming nonsense.
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