Largest continuous oil accumulation it has ever assessed!

topic posted Fri, April 11, 2008 - 7:55 AM by  Unsubscribed
And it is right here in the USA!

www.foxnews.com/story/0,29...728,00.html

The U.S. Geological Survey calls it the largest continuous oil accumulation it has ever assessed.

An assessment by USGS in 1999 found the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge had 10.3 billion barrels of recoverable oil, said Brenda Pierce, a geologist for the agency

The Bakken Formation encompasses some 25,000 square miles in North Dakota, Montana, Saskatchewan and Manitoba.

About two-thirds of the acreage is in western North Dakota, where the oil is trapped in a thin layer of dense rock nearly two miles beneath the surface.
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  • yeah, we have a lot of hard to refine oil in Utah, lets take out the wasatch mountains, who needs this place anyways but all those LA types that like to do Sundance film festivals. Besides Zions National Park, Moab are way over rated. Isnt Utah the place where the federal government wanted to put all the nuclear waste from all of America.

    Lets just fuck up alaska too, who needs trees the clean our air, who needs nature for animals that hang in the balance our own survival as a species on this planet.

    fuck who needs all of you, maybe if you, more humans die off, then there would be less to share, even though it would most likely kill me off too.

    Because fuck, jesus is coming to take me out of this hell holel, scotty beam me up because I am sufering from delusions of unlimited possibility in the face of a small world.
    • The oil in ANWAR is also not going to save the day, as even with current supplies it still a drop in the bucket. Sadly, I think it will eventually get drilled anyway as oil prices continue to climb.
      • not if we can stop the Bush lovers from taking power
        • B
          B
          offline 113
          <We have plenty of oil and an unlimited supply of nuclear energy.>

          Another incorrect statement, a falacy tossed out like fact.
          • Unsu...
             
            actually it is completely true. Oil discoveries of vast resevoirs are still being discovered and will continue to be. Nuclear Energy is clean, safe and considered "unlimited". The contaminants are recycled into the reactor to the point where long term storage is no longer necessary.

            www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/f...ews/till.html

            " Eventually, what happens is that you wind up with only fission products, that the waste is only fission products that have, most have lives of hours, days, months, some a few tens of years. There are a few very long-lived ones that are not very radioactive. And those are put in either metallic [matrix], a metallic container, or in a ceramic, very much like the ceramic in a sink so that the form of the waste, then, is something very impermeable to any kind of dissolution or anything like that, that will certainly last long enough to take care of the radioactive lives of materials that it's asked to contain."

            Nuclear physicist and associate lab director at Argonne National Laboratory West in Idaho. He is co-developer of the Integral Fast Reactor, an inherently safe nuclear reactor with a closed fuel cycle.
            • So can they take all the left over nuclear waste and make it harmless?

              So if nuclear energy is the solution, why dont we just build more of them, problem solved.

              Or maybe, your smoking something Dan
              • Unsu...
                 
                "Or maybe, your smoking something Dan"

                I don't need to smoke anything since I am willing to face reality. Nuclear energy is "a" solution which has been villified by the paranoid leftists in our country. I didn't state that it was "the" solution for all energy needs. Petroleum is going to be number 1 for a long time. Hydroelectric is very import as well, but nothing beats oil. We need an administration that will promote it and the Bush administration has failed to do so.

                The USA is about number 20 on a list of countries depending upon nuclear energy according to a University of Michigan study. The concerns are primarily the danger of nuclear technology falling into the hands of Islamic and communist crazies (north Korea, Iran etc.) and the irrational fears of "meldowns" which are all but non existant in developed countries.
                • Yes...something we agree on, the oil cronies of the bush adminstration failed us.

                  Dan said "Petroleum is going to be number 1 for a long time" I think this is the main point that created the peak oil theory, and the fact is no one knows who is right.

                  Someone once said that reality was for people who couldnt handle drugs. of course, the other group said drugs are for people who cant handle reality. I think facing reality given the assumptive nature of human perception is a problem for all of us, and science and stats only prove our assumptive bias.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     
                    "Dan said "Petroleum is going to be number 1 for a long time" I think this is the main point that created the peak oil theory, and the fact is no one knows who is right."

                    How can we claim that world wide oil has peaked if "no one knows who is right"? Answer, we can't. The fact is that every time we thought we were running out we found more oil. Proven reserves have grown and we are no where near to having explored the entire earth for oil reserves. Based upon history, my confidence in science and technology, current discoveries etc, I confidently believe that there is enough oil in the ground to satisfy current and future oil needs for many decades, perhaps a millenium. I have zero concern about running out.

                    "I think facing reality given the assumptive nature of human perception is a problem for all of us, and science and stats only prove our assumptive bias."

                    I don't understand your point here.
                    • You would need a psychology degree to understand the problems with human perception.

                      The basic point is that when we assume, that makes an ass out of u and me.

                      Most of what we consider memory/belief or assume are facts are based on limited information. The problem with human perception is we collapse what is with what we assume or what isnt.

                      Try this one on, "the truth believed is a lie, a lie believed is the truth" or "the only real truth is that which you experience in the present moment, the same thing believed is a lie, in life understanding is the booby prize."

                      Sorry about the tangent but you asked...
                      • Unsu...
                         
                        I didn't ask, just said I didn't understand your point or its relevency. I don't have a psychology degree, but I know what truth is. Everything we believe is based upon unprovable assumptions, even science itself. You cannot survive in this world without a step of faith in one direction or another. The Christian accepts a God who created an orderly comphrehensible universe. And sure enough, the universe is governed by univeral laws of science and logic, just as the biblical theist would suppose.
            • B
              B
              offline 113
              1) There never has been and there are no plans being drawn up for any power reactors that use fision by products.

              2) Nothing especially nuclear power is "inherently safe" (please go to Chernobyl to prove your point)

              3) The amount of Uranium used in all present day power reactors is finite. One estimate was given in which all current fossil fuel electric generating plants were replace by nuclear plants and the supply of uranium would only last 200 years.
              • Unsu...
                 
                "1) There never has been and there are no plans being drawn up for any power reactors that use fision by products. "

                You are incorrect: www.gnep.energy.gov/pdfs/gnepISFRC.pdf

                "The U.S. is moving from a oncethrough fuel cycle to a new approach
                that includes recycling of spent nuclear fuel without separating out
                pure plutonium. This capability would employ advanced technologies to increase
                proliferation resistance, recover and reuse fuel resources, and reduce the amount of
                wastes requiring permanent geological disposal at Yucca Mountain. This work
                builds on the Department of Energy’s Advanced Fuel Cycle Initiative, which
                has been researching innovative recycle concepts since 2000.
                Spent nuclear fuel contains uranium, transuranic elements (plutonium and other
                long-lived radioactive material) and fission products. The fission products are waste and
                make up less than 5 percent of the used fuel. The buildup of the fission products inhibits
                the nuclear fission reaction, so spent fuel must be removed from a nuclear power
                plant and replaced with fresh fuel. Under the Global Nuclear Energy
                Partnership (GNEP), recycling would employ advanced fuel separation which
                would accomplish the following: (read the rest in the link provided)

                www.gnep.energy.gov/pdfs/gne...y2007.pdf

                Global Nuclear Energy Partnership Strategic Plan (note goal number 2 below)

                "Develop, demonstrate, and deploy advanced technologies for recycling spent nuclear fuel
                that do not separate plutonium, with the goal over time of ceasing separation of
                plutonium and eventually eliminating excess stocks of civilian plutonium and drawing
                down existing stocks of civilian spent fuel. Such advanced fuel cycle technologies would
                substantially reduce nuclear waste, simplify its disposition, and help to ensure the need
                for only one geologic repository in the United States through the end of this century."

                The French have been recycling nuclear waste now for decades without incident.

                "2) Nothing especially nuclear power is "inherently safe" (please go to Chernobyl to prove your point)"

                It seems that you are using "clintonesqe" terminology to evade the truth. Of course it is true that nothing is "inherently safe". Life is a balance of risk to benefit senarios. However, nuclear energy, properly safeguarded, is very safe and the cleanest form energy there is. Here are the comments of a well known environmentalist:

                "Nuclear electricity is now a well-tried and soundly engineered practice that is both safe and economic; given the will it could be applied quickly. It is risky if improperly used but, even taking the Chernobyl disaster into account, it is, according to a recent Swiss study, by far the safest of the power industries. Disinformation about its dangers sustains a climate of fearful ignorance and has artificially inflated the difficulties of disposing of nuclear waste and the cost of nuclear power. If permitted, I would happily store high-level waste on my own land and use the heat from it to warm my home. There seems no sensible reason why nuclear waste should not be disposed of in the deep subducting regions of the ocean where tectonic forces draw all deposits down into the magma."

                James Lovelock, preeminent world leader in the development of environmental consciousness. You may also wish to check out this web site www.ecolo.org/intro/introus.htm, These are enviromentalists for nuclear energy. Nuclear energy would reduce CO2 emissions by 30%. Even Al Gore should jump on this bandwagon!

                In addition, nuclear fusion has no harmful byproducts and is technology which will likely come to fruition in our lifetime.

                "3) The amount of Uranium used in all present day power reactors is finite. One estimate was given in which all current fossil fuel electric generating plants were replace by nuclear plants and the supply of uranium would only last 200 years."

                "the actual recoverable uranium supply is likely to be enough to last several hundred (up to 1000) years, even using standard reactors. With breeders, it is essentially infinite. Hundreds of thousands of years is certainly enough time to develop fusion power, or renewable sources that can meet all our power needs."

                World Uranium Reserves by James Hopf. www.americanenergyindependence.com/uranium.html

                en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium

                "The ultimate supply of uranium is believed to be very large and sufficient for at least the next 85 years[34] although some studies indicate underinvestment in the late twentieth century may produce supply problems in the 21st century.[40] It is estimated that for a ten times increase in price, the supply of uranium that can be economically mined is increased 300 times."

                In addition, uranium can also be mined from sea water. www.americanenergyindependence.com/NuclearSlides/Uranium01.htm
                • Wait, I wanted the last word....lol
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     
                    Moki, do you have a purpose for participating on this forum or no?
                    • Nope, just to learn the conservative and liberal approaches to the truth of Peak Oil. It would be a dead conversation if it wasnt for your constant lack of listening, continual denial of the facts, and overall argumentative nature. I swear your being paid off by the oil machine.
                      • Unsu...
                         
                        correction, it was a dead tribe before I arrived and provided the necessary balance to irrational liberal anarchist nonsense. Except for Rene, no one, including you, has provided a coherent rebuttal. That I am paid by some lobby is laughable. According so some, I am paid also by the YEC'ers, the fundamentalists etc..
                        • I gave you credit for opening up the arguments in this tribe.

                          I believe you invited Rene, but fail to listen to her comments. She continues to attempt to have a discussion with you, and she seems to be frustrated with your lack of a real debate.

                          It does seem odd that on a nowhere tribe blog you would put so much energy to show your one sided points of view. Given Rene obvious attempts to have a real discussion with you. Thats what the Bush machine has done with the Gulf War II spin.

                          I dont know that much about Peak Oil, I do know critical thinking and debate, and you sir are not having a discussion with others, your just posting spin without listening to the other side.
                          • Unsu...
                             
                            "I believe you invited Rene, but fail to listen to her comments. She continues to attempt to have a discussion with you, and she seems to be frustrated with your lack of a real debate."

                            Rene is a male, not a female. We have been debating various subjects for over a year. I have not avoided a discussion with him. If he is frustrated, it is because I don't accept his conclusions. But it would be incorrect to say that I ignore all that he says, I don't. Nor would it be correct that he has in anyway won the debate here, he has not. But he is the only one with an argument, which is why I invited him.

                            "It does seem odd that on a nowhere tribe blog you would put so much energy to show your one sided points of view. Given Rene obvious attempts to have a real discussion with you. Thats what the Bush machine has done with the Gulf War II spin."

                            My views are no more "one sided" than are anyone elses here. You are just looking at this from one side, yours!

                            "I dont know that much about Peak Oil, I do know critical thinking and debate, and you sir are not having a discussion with others, your just posting spin without listening to the other side."

                            correction, you don't know much about critical thinking or debate either.
                • B
                  B
                  offline 113
                  <With breeders, it is essentially infinite.>

                  Breeders produce plutonium. And not an infinate amount. I don't believe in perpetual motion machines.

                  And as I said there are not plans on the drawing board for a "POWER" reactor. I don't belive that demonstration reactors qualify to solve an energy problem.
                  The French have a few dead bodies in the closet of nuclear fuel reclamation. Just as the US does.
  • >>"The U.S. Geological Survey calls it the largest continuous oil accumulation it has ever assessed. "<<

    This article by a petroleum engineer puts the USGS assessment of **undiscovered** oil in the Bakken formation in the proper perspective:

    www.theoildrum.com/node/3868#more

    A few quotes:

    "The USGS numbers are notable for their apparent certainty of the size of the undiscovered resources. The p5/p95 ratio is one measure of the spread or uncertainty of a probabilistic estimate. The USGS oil numbers show ratios of 1.2 to 1.9, which is quite surprising. These low ratios imply that the USGS is highly confident in their recoverable resource estimates. One would have thought that a 5X or 10X spread in this ratio would be more plausible considering that 85% to 90% of the resources has not yet been discovered. Perhaps when the detailed report is released, the logic behind this narrow range will be revealed. In the mean time, I remain highly skeptical that such a large resource with an unknown variability of fracture density, porosity, and recovery factor, and other factors, can be quantified with such precision."

    "If we could actually produce 3.6 billion barrels of undiscovered oil forecast at the P50 level by USGS, how much would this equate to? The US uses about 7.6 billion barrels of oil products a year, according to EIA data. This is equivalent to just under six month's US oil use, spread over a very long period, probably 20 years or more. If total production amounts to only 500 million barrels, as I have suggested, this would equate to about 23 days worth of United States oil usage, spread over many, many years."

    "Conclusions

    1. The Bakken shale has produced about 111 million barrels of oil during the last 50+ years in Montana and North Dakota.

    2. Total Bakken production is still rising, and producing at the rate of 75,000 BOPD in October 2007.

    3. Because of the highly variable nature of shale reservoirs, the characteristics of the historical Bakken production, and the fact that per-well rates seem to have peaked, it seems unlikely that total Bakken production will exceed 2x to 3x current rate of 75,000 BOPD.

    4. The latest boom in Bakken production is driven by the application of horizontal wells and hydraulic fracturing technology, which has added about 70 million barrels of production in 7 years. Ultimate recovery of the already-drilled wells should be at least double this volume.

    5. The USGS estimates the mean volume of technically recoverable hydrocarbons to be 3,649 million barrels of oil. This is roughly 7 to 12 times the size of already known resources.

    6. Based on current production and areas likely to be drilled, the USGS estimate of technically recovery resources seems optimistic.

    7. The Bakken potential resource, while large by US onshore field standards, will have only a minor effect on US production or imports. Using 2006 US imports and consumption for comparison, the Bakken undiscovered resource of 3,649 million barrels of oil, if subsequently discovered and fully developed, would provide us with the equivalent of six months of oil consumption or 10 months of imports, spread over 20 or more years. In reality, the reserves developed are likely to be many times smaller than this value.

    8. The October 2007 production rate of 75,000 BOPD amounts only 0.4% of US oil consumption, or 0.6% of imports.

    9. Per-well Bakken production peaked in August 2005 at 116 barrels a day, and was down to 79 barrels a day in October 2007. If the Bakken production history in the 1990s can be used as a guide, the peaking of per-well production may portend a peak in total Bakken production."

    Here are some good links to what the USGS actually reported:

    www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp

    pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2008/302...3021_508.pdf

    energy.usgs.gov/flash/Bakk...ideshow.swf

    Some things to be aware of about this report:

    (1) Th USGS assessment includes the entire area where the Bakken is in the "oil window" (depth, pressure, and temperature region where oil is being generated from the organic material in the shale) referring the the generated oil as "technically recoverable". Technically recoverable does not equate to economically recoverable. There are only a couple of areas where oil is currently being produced from the Bakken and these areas may be and if fact most likely are structurally and stratigraphically distinct from most of the basin. In simple terms they have favorable fracture density, are sufficiently brittle to fracture, and contain beds between the oil producing shales that are able to hold and produce some hydrocarbons with sufficient fracture intensity. They are "sweet" spots where conditions are just right to allow an otherwise impermable rock to produce some oil. Even here heroic technical efforts are required to make economic wells. Surely there are many more "sweet" spots to be found, but to assume the entire oil generating area can be economically produced is not reasonable.

    (2) The fact the USGS is making an assessment of **undiscovered** resources here seems to not be understood by many touting the "discovery" of huge resources of oil in the Bakken. The USGS is not talking about any oil discovery, only assessing what could theoretically be found if many exploration wells are drilled in the area.

    (3) Whether these exploration wells are drilled depends a lot on the price of oil. "Resource" plays like the Bakken look good at $100/barrel, but if oil but if oil drops back to $60/barrel, they will no longer be economic and won't be drilled. If we are not at "peak oil" and supply again overruns demand, the estimated 3.65 billion barrels of oil in the Bakken will remain in the ground. What we can see from all this is that rather than the potential reserves in the Bakken mitigating the peak of conventional oil supplies, the exploitation of this potential resource actually requires a situation where oil price is high and potentially going higher still.






  • >>"The U.S. Geological Survey calls it the largest continuous oil accumulation it has ever assessed."<<

    Here is another good discussion of the Bakken oil play:

    www.aspo-usa.com/index.php

    Some quotes:

    "The assessment of the Bakken Formation indicates that most of the undiscovered oil resides within a continuous composite reservoir that is distributed across the entire area of the oil generation window (fig. 2) and includes all members of the Bakken Formation. At the time of this assessment, only a limited number of wells have produced from the Bakken continuous reservoir in the Central Basin–Poplar Dome AU, the Eastern Expulsion Threshold AU, and the Northwest Expulsion Threshold AU. Therefore, there is significant geologic uncertainty in these estimates, which is reflected in the range of estimates for oil (table 1 [graph above left]).

    Few will remember the geologic uncertainty. Most will remember the large numbers. Here are some telling—damning?—observations and comments on the USGS results—

    1. Operators in Elm Coulee, which forms part of the Elm Coulee-Billings Nose AU, were skeptical about the USGS estimates. The International Herald Tribune reported that "Donald Kessel, vice president of Houston-based Murex Petroleum Corp., said he believes the Geological Survey's assessment of how much oil can be recovered in the Bakken may be a little on the high side. "That's a lot of zeros," Kessel said Thursday [about the 3,645,000,000 barrels].

    2. The Elm-Coulee-Billings Nose AU has the smallest mean estimate, coming in at 410 million barrels, yet that is the only part of middle Bakken play undergoing extensive development. Headington's guess was somewhere in excess of 250 million barrels for "the area", but it is not clear whether this is just for Elm Coulee, or also includes some other parts of the Survey's assessment unit.

    3. The USGS indicates that its largest estimates are for the areas where, by its own admission, "only a limited number of wells have produced." This includes the Eastern Expulsion Threshold AU, for example, where the Survey estimates an astonishing 973 million undiscovered and unrecovered barrels. There's always more oil where you haven't looked according to the USGS.

    4. Middle Bakken expert Tom Lantz (link op. cit.) has this to say about the geology of some of the undeveloped but supposedly oil-rich assessment units covered by the USGS—

    Certainly the thrust of the Middle Bakken play is moving north and east into the deeper sections of the basin in North Dakota. Since the lithology changes from higher quality dolomitic facies to a lower quality sandy/silty facies, the reservoir does not seem to be nearly as forgiving in North Dakota ... as it is in the original play area [Elm Coulee]. The ultimate extent and duration of the play will hinge on how effective we are in understanding these changes and tailoring the drilling and completion designs to exploit this lower quality reservoir. "

    ..."According to Jim Ehrets, a Denver-based geologist with Headington Oil Co. of Dallas, it costs about $5 million to drill a well tapping the middle Bakken, and companies need crude prices of at least $50 a barrel to make it economical. Even with crude prices now double that, "there still is a ton of risk," he said.

    Given the expense and complexity of drilling in the Bakken, it is no wonder that there is "a ton of risk" for operators—success is not guaranteed. The risk is so large that "drillers began sharing technology about two years ago on how to recover the oil" according to the AP report.

    Bakken_horizontal_well_simulation What about the successful wells? Unfortunately, a successful well at the Bakken will produce a few hundreds, not thousands, of barrels of oil per day. Landmark's 3000 foot horizontal well simulation (graph left) reveals that in the best case, with a permeability after hydraulic fracturing of 0.66 milladarcies, the well would produce 150,000 thousand barrels (averaging 375 stock tank barrels per day) after 400 days or so (purple line). As the curve shows, cumulative production declines dramatically thereafter, leveling off at approximately 370,000 barrels over the well's lifespan of 18+ years.

    Elm Coulee provides a real-world snapshot of Bakken production as it stood in 2006. Headington Oil Company has made some useful data available that helps us evaluate how things might go in the future. Here are the pertinent facts & figures—

    * The cumulative oil production 6 years after discovery is 32 million barrels. Production from about 350 wells had reached 1.6 million barrels in March, 2006. This works out to 53,000 barrels per day with an average well producing about 152 barrels per day.

    * About 520 square miles are under development and there were 20 drilling rigs working continuously as of November, 2006.

    * Headington estimates ultimate recovery from the area will be somewhere in excess of 250 million barrels, assuming ≅ 500,000 barrels will be ultimately recovered per square mile.

    Combining Headington's Elm Coulee data with the Landmark simulation, we can draw the following conclusions—

    * Well productivity drops off rapidly after the first year or so of production. If other parts of the Middle Bakken are as productive as the drilled parts of Elm Coulee, and constant large investment in drilling activity in the western Williston Basin continues, we might see peak production somewhere in excess of 100,000 barrels per day. This is an educated guess, but this estimate is not off by an order of magnitude, i.e. we are talking about peak production rates in the very low hundreds of thousands, not millions, of barrels of oil per day.

    * It will likely take another 5-10 years to ramp Middle Bakken production up to its peak level as described just above.
    • Unsu...
       
      Rene, this link goes to an "association for the Study of Peak oil and Gas" in the USA. While this does not discount the article out of hand, I think it is important to point out their rather obvious bias on the subject. The overal point is that skeptics of Bakken oil are skeptical of the significance of the Bakken oil play. No real surprise here. Over the past century those on the side of impending doom have been about as accurate as Jehovah's witnesses predicting the return of Christ, those on the side of abundance have been proven right time and again. At some point we "may" begin to run out of oil and I am sure that peak oil enthusiasts will step forward to say "see, I told you so". But for now, I think it wise to be skeptical of the skeptics.

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