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www.businessweek.com/bwdaily...8659.htm
"The latest of the announcements came Monday, when the head of ANP, Brazil's government oil regulator, revealed "unofficial" figures from a new reservoir, known as Carioca, which may hold 33 billion barrels of oil and gas. If confirmed, it would be the world's largest discovery in at least 32 years. Carioca, which is located in the Santos Basin, 170 miles from shore underneath 2,000 meters of water, would follow on the November mega-discovery by state oil company Petrobras (PBR) of the offshore Tupi field, with its already confirmed reserves of 5 billion to 8 billion barrels, and a later discovery known as Jupiter, a natural gas area that Petrobras says is as big as Tupi and perhaps even more important for gas-hungry Brazil."
"The latest of the announcements came Monday, when the head of ANP, Brazil's government oil regulator, revealed "unofficial" figures from a new reservoir, known as Carioca, which may hold 33 billion barrels of oil and gas. If confirmed, it would be the world's largest discovery in at least 32 years. Carioca, which is located in the Santos Basin, 170 miles from shore underneath 2,000 meters of water, would follow on the November mega-discovery by state oil company Petrobras (PBR) of the offshore Tupi field, with its already confirmed reserves of 5 billion to 8 billion barrels, and a later discovery known as Jupiter, a natural gas area that Petrobras says is as big as Tupi and perhaps even more important for gas-hungry Brazil."
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Re: In Brazil, Another Gusher
Thu, April 17, 2008 - 6:47 AM<f confirmed, it would be the world's largest discovery in at least 32 years>
Just keeps making the case for peak oil. Plot these out and see what you get. -
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Re: In Brazil, Another Gusher
Thu, April 17, 2008 - 8:05 AMnote that your comment about the last gusher was "if confirmed". It has now been confirmed at between 5-8 billion barrels. This figure will undoubtedly climb over time just as other oil fields have. If I plot this out we will not arrive at peak oil in any meaningful sense. What we will see is that "peaks" are followed by technological breakthroughs followed by ever larger amounts of oil discovered, such as the 200 billion Bakken Formation in the Dakota's now made available due to horizontal drilling techiques, large enough to make the U.S. energy independent. More oil is available under the great lakes, also available without the need for rigs over the water. Combine this with new abilities to produce oil affordbably from waste and peak oil adherents are left with nothing but a scarytale. -
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Re: In Brazil, Another Gusher
Thu, April 17, 2008 - 1:11 PM>>"What we will see is that "peaks" are followed by technological breakthroughs followed by ever larger amounts of oil discovered, such as the 200 billion Bakken Formation in the Dakota's now made available due to horizontal drilling techiques, large enough to make the U.S. energy independent."<<
I have been debating about whether it made any sense to educate you about this, since you have not demonstrated any ability to assimilate new information. The 200 billion barrels of oil in the Bakken formation is not recoverable or even potentially recoverable oil- it is potential oil in place. Recent estimates by the USGS have indicated there may be several billion barrels recoverable from the Bakken, but these are not proven reserves, only estimates of possible recoverable oil. The potentially recoverable amount from this large amount of oil in place is in the neighborhood of 1%. This is a very small number, so you might reasonably wonder why it is so small and whether perhaps it could be much greater. It is unlikely that it will be higher than this. Let me try to help you understand why.
First some very basic petoluem geology. Petroleum systems look something like this; you have source rocks, usually shales rich in organic matter, such as the Bakken, that generate oil when they are in a particular temperature and pressure region. Since these shales have almost no porosity or permeability, the oil cannot easily escape from them, but eventually pathways for oil expulsion are found in widely spaced fractures. The oil migrates into adjacent potential reservoir beds- porous and permeable sandstone and carbonate rocks. Because oil is bouyant in these water bearing rocks, it moves or migrates upward in these layers, until it reaches some high point were due either to structure or statigraphy, it is stopped and cannot move any further upward. This is an oil trap- a conventional oil field. The sandstone or carbonate rocks in these traps that hold the oil can produce at rates of less than ten barrels of oil per day to tens of thousands of barrels of day, depending on the nature of the porosity and permeability they have. Sometimes fractures in the rock aid the flow and allow for higher rate wells in otherwise poor reservoir quality rock. If more oil is generated by some source rocks than can be accomodated in all the traps or their are no traps, the oil will migrate all the way to the surface where it gets degraded by bacteria into tar. The Alberta tar sands are one example of this. So in a petroleum system we have three potential areas where petroleum might be recovered. Two of them, the oil that reaches the surface and becomes degraded to tar and the original source rocks are considered "unconventional resources". No one will ever argue that there is not a lot of oil in unconventional resources; we know the oil is there and we have known about it for a long time, so your characterization of the Bakken as a new discovery of oil is rather silly. The question is how much of it can economically recovered?
Before we discuss this question, since you are excited about the Bakken, let me tell you this formation is hardly unique. Black shales of Upper Devonian and Lower Mississippian age are common all over North America. The Devonian Appalachian Black shale has been producng gas in Ohio, Kentucky, and West Virginia for at least a hundred years. Low volume gas wells that produce where the shale is sufficently fractured are quite common. In recent years the Mississippian Barnett shale has become a hot play in the Fort Worth Basin in Texas. They are drilling wells for Barnett gas under the Dallas-Ft Worth airport as we speak. Advanced technology in inducing artificial fractures and horizontal drilling have made these wells economic, whereas in the past, they were not. We have Barnett in West Texas and this along with the Devonian Woodford shale is very similar to the Barnett in the Fort Worth Basin. A number of wells have been drilled and a lot of acreage has been leased, but so far it is unclear whether Barnett/Woodford shale in the Permian basin will be economic.
These source rock plays are tapping into the oil where it is generated and the formations are thick and widespread, so there is a lot of potential oil in place, but very little of this oil is recoverable as there is actually no real reservoir as in a conventional oil field. Oil is produced from widely spaced fractures. Vertical wells sometimes encounter a fracture or swarm of fractures and make oil or gas wells, but since the fractures are generally vertical and widely spaced, hitting a fracture or set of fractures with a vertical well is hard and even if you hit it, one fracture is unlikely to give you enough oil to make it worthwhile to drill the well. These problems are overcome by drilling horizontally to intersect multiple vertical fractures. In the Bakken play they have begun drilling multiple laterals. What you should be able to see is that if all your reservoir consists of are widely spaced sets of fractures through otherwise impermeable shales, there is no way to recover the large volume of potential oil in the shale between the fractures. This is why such a small volume of the potential oil in place is recovered in these source rock plays.
Wells in the Bakken, or any oil well where fractures provide all or an important part of the flow path show a typical pattern; they initially flow at relatively high rates that drop off very quickly, sometimes less than a year, no more than 2 years,and then produce at some very low rate for a long time. That low rate for a long time is a good thing, if you already have a well, but from an economic perspective it is not worth much; it has almost no impact on your discounted rate of return. We have Bakken wells that are over twenty years old now and the declining production rate of these wells gives us quite and accurate estimate of their ultimate potential production. What these numbers tell us is that the 1% of the potential oil in place is about the right number for Bakken recovery factors and there is no reason to suppose they will be much higher. Intersecting more fractures with horizontal wells increases the initial production rates, helping economics, but does not ultimately add much to recoverable reserves.
Now let us talk about the Bakken play and the potential recoverable oil of 3.65 Billion barrels that the USGS estimated. This number is based on looking at oil fields where the Bakken is currently being developed and figuring out how much of the entire Williston Basin might have similar conditions in the Bakken that might end up being developed into oil fields. I have not looked at the details of this estimate, but if it was done reasonably, the entire area were the shale is present should not be considered as having potential. The critical factor in the fields where the Bakken is being developed are the development of sufficient sets of fractures and this will vary with the structural and tectonic configuration of the basin. Fracturing is unlikely to be favorable everywhere. So you should see the the USGS estimate is really just a guess; they are guessing at how much area might have similar structural and tectonic conditions as those present in the currently producing areas. They could be right on with this estimate, or they could be completely wrong, so in no way can these potential reserves be considered proven oil reserves. The only reason to supply such an estimate is to show there may be a resource worth exploring for. Until the exploration has been done, nothing at all has been "found". -
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Re: In Brazil, Another Gusher
Fri, April 18, 2008 - 8:13 AM"I have been debating about whether it made any sense to educate you about this, since you have not demonstrated any ability to assimilate new information."
I invited you to this forum Rene because I realize you are an expert in this field. Your expertise is important to the discussion. But being an expert doesn't entitle you to get the last word on everything. You should be aware that there are those in your field who disagree with you on some of these matters and I am simply bringing this information out. So disparaging me is rather pointless here, yet you are welcome to do it if you get some satisfaction from it.
"The 200 billion barrels of oil in the Bakken formation is not recoverable or even potentially recoverable oil- it is potential oil in place. Recent estimates by the USGS have indicated there may be several billion barrels recoverable from the Bakken, but these are not proven reserves, only estimates of possible recoverable oil."
It seems that the recoverable figure is rising Rene:
www.twincities.com/ci_8883574
"The Bakken Formation, a blanket of tightly-packed shale located nearly two miles below the surface, has 3 billion to 4.3 billion barrels of recoverable oil, the U.S. Geological Survey said in an assessment released Wednesday.
The assessment is a 25-fold increase from the agency's estimate of 151 million barrels of recoverable oil in 1995, using the technology available at that time. That vaults the Bakken formation ahead of recoverable oil resources in Texas and Louisiana, USGS officials said."
The potentially recoverable amount from this large amount of oil in place is in the neighborhood of 1%. This is a very small number, so you might reasonably wonder why it is so small and whether perhaps it could be much greater. It is unlikely that it will be higher than this. Let me try to help you understand why."
First let's acknowledge the fact that even at 3 billion barrels of oil this makes Bakken one of the largest fields in the U.S.
" "It's game-changing; it's an absolutely huge number," said Ryan Gilbertson, the chief financial officer and co-founder of Northern Oil & Gas, a startup oil exploration company based in Wayzata that owns small percentages of several wells drilled into the Bakken."
"First some very basic petoluem geology. "
Thanks Rene for the lesson. Appreciated as always.
"No one will ever argue that there is not a lot of oil in unconventional resources; we know the oil is there and we have known about it for a long time, so your characterization of the Bakken as a new discovery of oil is rather silly. The question is how much of it can economically recovered?"
I didn't mean to characterize it as a 'new discovery" Rene and I thought my wording "Now made available" was sufficient to reveal that I knew it had been known of for decades.
"Before we discuss this question, since you are excited about the Bakken, let me tell you this formation is hardly unique. Black shales of Upper Devonian and Lower Mississippian age are common all over North America. The Devonian Appalachian Black shale has been producng gas in Ohio, Kentucky, and West Virginia for at least a hundred years."
Great, and my point is that new technology being developed over the past 30-50 years is increasing the recoverability of these formations. Yes, I am excited about Bakken and plan to keep my eye on it to see how the estimates of recoverable oil increase over time:
"The USGS does not estimate the total potential of an area, only its recoverable oil, Pierce said. Advances in drilling technology plus a better understanding of the geology of the area led the USGS to raise its estimate, she said."
Low volume gas wells that produce where the shale is sufficently fractured are quite common. In recent years the Mississippian Barnett shale has become a hot play in the Fort Worth Basin in Texas. They are drilling wells for Barnett gas under the Dallas-Ft Worth airport as we speak. Advanced technology in inducing artificial fractures and horizontal drilling have made these wells economic, whereas in the past, they were not. We have Barnett in West Texas and this along with the Devonian Woodford shale is very similar to the Barnett in the Fort Worth Basin. A number of wells have been drilled and a lot of acreage has been leased, but so far it is unclear whether Barnett/Woodford shale in the Permian basin will be economic.
"These problems are overcome by drilling horizontally to intersect multiple vertical fractures."
which I mentioned above.
"The only reason to supply such an estimate is to show there may be a resource worth exploring for. Until the exploration has been done, nothing at all has been "found"."
The estimate of 1% recoverability is likely on the low side. Estimates have ranged all of the way to 50%.
"How much of the generated oil is recoverable remains to be determined. Estimates of 50%, 18%,
and 3 to 10% have been published.
The Bakken play on the North Dakota side of the basin is still early in the learning curve.
Technology and the price of oil will dictate what is potentially recoverable from this formation.
The unpublished manuscript by Dr. Leigh Price entitled “Origins and characteristics of the basincentered
continuous-reservoir unconventional oil-resource base of the Bakken Source System,
Williston Basin” contains valuable information and should be published with a disclaimer or
perhaps a discussion. The data in the paper is valuable and potentially of great benefit to the
state. It should be left to the geological community to determine whether or not they will accept
interpretations presented within the report.
www.dmr.nd.gov/ndgs/bakke...timates.pdf
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Re: In Brazil, Another Gusher
Fri, April 18, 2008 - 9:12 AM>>"First let's acknowledge the fact that even at 3 billion barrels of oil this makes Bakken one of the largest fields in the U.S."<<
What you don't seem to get Dan is that it is not an "oil field". It is an estimate of possible reserves in the Bakken if a number of potential oil fields are found and developed. The same kinds of estimates of billions of barrels are made for ANWR and also for other potential exploration and development areas all over the U.S. None of these are considered oil fields. They are simply potential resources if a number of new fields are found and developed. To put it simply; you can't count your chickens before they hatch.
>>"It seems that the recoverable figure is rising"<<
I am aware of all this information and I was trying to put it into the proper context for you. The potential recoverable reserves have risen because there are two or three fields where they have been successful at economically developing the Bakken with horizontal drilling and new artificial fracturing techniques. In 1995, there were a few Bakken wells, but most were marginal or non-economic. The 151 million barrels was basially a token figure to reflect the several non-economic fields that existed at the time.
" "It's game-changing; it's an absolutely huge number," said Ryan Gilbertson"
I agree with Ryan's assessment. The Bakken will be a viable target for years to come, before it was just another non-economic play.
>>"The estimate of 1% recoverability is likely on the low side. Estimates have ranged all of the way to 50%."<<
The estimate of recoverable oil from a shale source rock is not "likely on the low side", as I already explained. When such source rocks are exposed at the surface, we have what we call an "oil shale". Even mining this rock and cooking the oil out will not get you 50% and there is no scientific assessment of source rock potential recovery anywhere near 50%. That is simply a totally ridiculous number. In good reservoir rocks with excellent porosity and permeability primary recoveries of oil are often in the range of 20% of the oil in place. If we go to secondary recovery methods such as waterflooding we can push the recovery factor to to 40-50% range. With tertiary recover,usually the injection of CO2, we might add another 10-15% of the oil place. This is with real reservoir rocks. You must understand that the shales, such as the Bakken have no porosity or permeability whatsoever. The oil is actually right now be cooked out of the organic matter in these rocks and only escaping through widely spaced fractures. The recovery of 1% is actually optimistic. The USGS knows what they are talking about and optimistic numbers are used for resource assessments in undeveloped areas. Your statement above simply has no basis in fact or theory.
>>'How much of the generated oil is recoverable remains to be determined",,
The generated oil is not the oil in place which is what the 200 billion barrel number refers to. That number is derived by analyzing the organic content of the shale and estimating how much oil could be produced from it. There is of course a great deal of uncertainty about exactly how much has been generated, how much has already escaped to conventional reservoirs, how much is left in the rock, how much is currently being generated, and what percentage of that can be tapped by wells. This number may vary as you say, but the 1% oil in place won't vary much. Also of course we have wells where we can estimate the area being drained, estimate the oil in place in that area, and accurately estimate the ultimate production from the decline curve- the 1% number fits with these estimates.
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Re: In Brazil, Another Gusher
Thu, May 1, 2008 - 3:19 PMI think he was refering not to the amount of oil itself in the new "potential" field, but that it is a "lone-major" discovery. We would need to find another 20-30 of these "gushers" if we are to keep pace our dying fields.
Its not just like we can pop the plug and get oil tomorrow, it will take years to get drilling and excraction online, as our current fields that are all ready in decline drop off even more.
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Re: In Brazil, Another Gusher
Thu, April 17, 2008 - 2:01 PM>>"The latest of the announcements came Monday, when the head of ANP, Brazil's government oil regulator, revealed "unofficial" figures from a new reservoir, known as Carioca, which may hold 33 billion barrels of oil and gas. If confirmed, it would be the world's largest discovery in at least 32 years."<<
So what exactly does this infomation tell us, assuming the "unofficial" estimate is close to the actual reserves? Does it suggest there are far more reserves in the world than anyone has estimated and "peak oil" is far off? Not at all. It tells us that when we explore in new areas, just as in the older producing areas, the big reserves are found first. Deep water Brazil is a new exploration area and big reserves are being found exactly as everyone would expect. It actually tells us nothing except that people are finding the need to drill in more and more remote regions because most older producing regions are already declining in production. In fact every producing region, except Saudi Arabia and some areas of the Former Soviet Union are past their peak production. New finds in remote regions tell us nothing about how close we are to peak production worldwide. The answer to that question can be found by looking at how much of the world's potentially productive basins have been explored, as compared to what is now unexplored. If we have explored more than half of the world's potentially productive basins, we should be near or past peak production. If we have explored less than half, we should still be many years away from the peak. Any information you can supply that would tell us something about this, would be pertinent, but new discoveries in remote regions are irrelevant to the debate.
One aspect of whether we have explored more than half of the world's potentially productive basins is important to this debate. The Middle East has oil basins with resources much higher than that seen in the majority of the world's productive basins and they are fairly well explored. If all unexplored areas had resources more like the Middle East, then it is possible we may not really have found half the oil by exploring half of the potential area. However, a more likely scenario is that what is left may have some areas like the Middle East, but more areas like the rest of world, so that overall results would be similar. Another scenario, probably more likely than the first, is that all that is left to explore will be similar to most of the world and none of it like the Middle East. One should be aware that given the remoteness of the unexplored regions, better reservoirs than found in most of the world would be necessary in order to allow for development. It is therefore quite possible that even if found oil in remote regions it may not be exploitable. We actually already have examples of such areas. The Russians have found many large and significant oil fields in Eastern Siberia, but they have never been developled because they are too remote. Perhaps some day they will be exploited, but it is also possible they will never be developed.
