Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi

topic posted Tue, March 18, 2008 - 6:57 AM by  Unsubscribed
In the wake of katrina and rising fuel prices people began to worry about oil supplies in the same way they irrationally worry about global warming during a warmer than usual winter month. During this time Saudi Arabia joined Exxon and allaying those fears. Here is the article:

www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...699.html

Here are some quotes:

Saudi Arabia, the biggest oil producer, and Exxon Mobil, the largest oil company, yesterday declared that the world had decades' worth of oil to come, in an attempt to calm fears about the record prices experienced in recent weeks.

Forming a powerful alliance, the Saudi oil minister Ali al-Naimi said, at an industry conference in Johannesburg, that the country would soon almost double its "proven" reserve base, while Exxon's president, Rex Tillerson, spoke of 3 trillion or more barrels of oil that are yet to be recovered.

Mr Naimi said that Saudi Arabia would "soon" add 200 billion barrels to its current reserves estimate of 264 billion barrels. The level of the kingdom's reserves and future production capacity are a controversial issue, with sceptics suggesting that it is running out of oil. Muhammed-Ali Zainy, of London's Centre for Global Energy Studies, said: "Since these Opec countries [like Saudi Arabia] are closed, the only information available is available to themselves alone. So they can come up with a new reserves figure and the rest of the world will just have to take it."

"Give us the customers and we will pump more oil," the Saudi oil minister told reporters at the 18th World Petroleum Congress, adding that more refineries needed to be built. He said that enough global output would be added in the next three to four years to restore "some margin of safety" to oil markets."

"Mr Naimi said talk of oil scarcity reminded him of the 1970s, when people also thought the end of the age of oil was at hand. "But in the intervening years, when we were supposedly facing a precipitous decline, world oil reserves more than doubled," he said."

"It is widely accepted that demand for oil will rise over the next decade or two. Most projections of how that demand will be met assume that Saudi Arabia will be able to ramp up production to 15 million barrels a day or more by 2020."

Craig Pennington, an energy analyst at Schroders in London, said: "The message from these two [Naimi and Tillerson] is that, 'Don't worry. We do have enough oil. Just give us time to bring it in'."

So here is the message, "don't worry, be happy"
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  • B
    B
    offline 113
    "Give us the customers and we will pump more oil,"

    They can't. They are pumping at 95% capacity now.

    The largest field in teh world Gadwar is now pumping about 50% water from the injection. This is why their claims are controversial. They can't back up what they claim with facts. Those pesky facts not feelings.
    • Saudis have long been exaggerating how much oil they have. This has been published my many critics.
      • Unsu...
         
        How do we know they have exaggerated since we have no baseline to judge? Why would they wish to exaggerate anyway?
        • --Why would they wish to exaggerate anyway?

          "...in an "attempt" to calm fears about the record prices..."
          Perhaps you should read your fairytale artical again.


          --How do we know they have exaggerated since we have no baseline to judge?

          We dont, but the burnden of proof is on Saudi, not us, unless faith is the basis for your belief. And Saudi has failed to show the world any proof for their ever growing reserves other than their "happy" words.
          • Unsu...
             
            Dan : -Why would they wish to exaggerate anyway?

            "...in an "attempt" to calm fears about the record prices..."
            Perhaps you should read your fairytale artical again.

            It is an article by the major suppliers of oil in the world. It is only a "fairytale" when it doesn't conform to you silly preconceived bias. All that has been offered to me are articles from Wikipedia and Peak oil theorists. Of course these are unbiased and top notch sources:-)

            --How do we know they have exaggerated since we have no baseline to judge?

            "We dont, but the burnden of proof is on Saudi, not us, unless faith is the basis for your belief. And Saudi has failed to show the world any proof for their ever growing reserves other than their "happy" words."

            so in the absence of "proof" we can confidently claim we are running out of oil very soon?? Sounds like faith is the basis of your belief as well...
            • >>"Dan : -Why would they wish to exaggerate anyway?"<<

              OPEC members have had a good reason to exaggerate their reserves for many years- their production quotas are based on proven oil reserves. They also tend to sell and produce more than they report for the same reason.
              • Unsu...
                 
                "OPEC members have had a good reason to exaggerate their reserves for many years- their production quotas are based on proven oil reserves. They also tend to sell and produce more than they report for the same reason. "

                Yes Rene, you are right, their reserves doubled over night as a result of this, but this doesn't prove that they were not underestimating before. Exxon also has stated that supplies are sufficient, as has Shell.
                • >>"Yes Rene, you are right, their reserves doubled over night as a result of this, but this doesn't prove that they were not underestimating before."<<

                  You need to read more critically. Here is what the Saudi minister said:

                  "Mr Naimi said that Saudi Arabia would "soon" add 200 billion barrels to its current reserves estimate of 264 billion barrels."

                  Soon is how soon? The only thing clear is that they have not done it yet and yet you are already counting the reserves. I happen to know something about estimating reserves and there is some range of error involved, adding 10% or even 20% to a reserve estimate seems reasonably possible to me, but doubling it seems extraordinary and highly unlikely, particularly since they had an incentive to overestimate reserves in the first place.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     
                    Rene, we know that the Saudi's are holding back on oil production to keep prices up and to eliminate/reduce competition in non OPEC nations. They are currently holding all the cards as the worlds largest oil producer. The data shows we have a lot more oil than Hubert ever imagined, we are not running out in the near future. Even peak oil theorist Simmons acknowleges that he has no idea that the Saudi's are not running out of oil. Since he has no idea, is it reasonable to just assume they are, in light of persistant increases in production over the past 50 years? I don't think so.

                    Why not bring some balance to your discussion here Rene? I invited you because I know you are a pretroleum geologist. I also feel that you are aware that many of the comments being made here by others are fallacious, even though you are sympathetic to their conclusions. Do you agree with all that is being written here by those who support your peak oil convictions?
                    • >>"Rene, we know that the Saudi's are holding back on oil production to keep prices up and to eliminate/reduce competition in non OPEC nations."<<

                      It is amazing how often you get things backwards and claim knowledge you do not posssess. First, there is no evidence the Saudi's are holding back production. Second, higher prices for oil rather than eliminate/reduce competition in non-OPEC nations does the opposite. When they drove the price down in 1985, they almost destroyed the US oil industry. With the high prices now, we are in boom times once again. Because the Saudis possess many large fields with prolific wells, they can produce a barrel of oil far cheaper than we can here in the US where we mostly have low rate wells in extremely mature, depleted oil fields. In 1985, they drove the price down and eliminated a lot of competition. Thousands of "stripper" wells were abandoned as non-economic- and it will never be economic to reopen these wells. By forcing the price to drop they reclaimed the market share of oil that they wanted, even though they were getting paid less for it, over the long run they made more money because, the competition was gone and they could raise the price.

                      To give you an idea of what happens when the oil price is too low let us look at the US rig count from Baker-Hughes. At the peak of the oil boom in 1981 there were 4530 rigs running in the USA. Aftern the price collaspe in 1985, the rig cound bottomed out in 1986 at 663. After that the rig count wavered between 700-1000 rigs until about 2003 when it began to rise. Currently the US rig count stands at 1784, still a long way from the 80's boom. It should be noted that none of this drilling, not the 80's boom, nor the current one has changed the downward trend of US production. Every day, every month, every year we are forced to import more oil.

                      I think there is a great deal of uncertainty about the timing of the world oil peak, but the experience of the oil peak in our country which is far behind us ought to make it clear to you, that it will occur. The only question is exactly when. The trend in declining discoveries which I have already shown you, certainly suggests that that time is not far off.
                      • Unsu...
                         
                        "First, there is no evidence the Saudi's are holding back production."

                        www.energybulletin.net/41557.html

                        "One reason for the current price shock is that Saudi Arabia1 scaled-back crude production by 1 million barrels per day (b/d) between September, 2005 and February, 2007 to 8.6 million b/d. Only since September, 2007 has the Kingdom started to increase production, which currently sits at 9.2 million b/d in February, 2008 according to Mr. Ali al-Naimi, Saudi Arabia's oil minister. The OPEC basket price was $99.16 on March 7th. The longer-term basket price trend is shown in the graph (left) which shows a rise of about 360% since 2002."

                        "Second, higher prices for oil rather than eliminate/reduce competition in non-OPEC nations does the opposite."

                        Actually, both can cause a similar effect. One decreases the incentive, one decreases supply of easy oil in non OPEC nations.

                        "The Saudis and OPEC as a whole are likely to wait for the peak and decline of non-OPEC oil production, which is close upon us, before making any large production increases. Once the non-OPEC bloc is exhausted, the most likely scenario has OPEC adding enough oil to the world's supply to maintain the current plateau (≅ 74 million b/d) give or take ½-a-million barrels per day for some number of years as crude oil production outside the cartel declines. (Again, we are ignoring natural gas liquids here.) This is essentially the position of Dr. al-Husseini. This view is also known as "peak oil."

                        "I think there is a great deal of uncertainty about the timing of the world oil peak"

                        I agree, and for good reasons, there is way too much conjecture involved in these predictions. Many of your folk have suggested the world peak has already occurred in 2005, 2006 etc.. Truth is, they have no idea. A peak in easy oil will likely be followed by many decades of new "easy oil" as hitherto "expensive" oil becomes cheaper do to technology and increased incentive to go after it.

                        "but the experience of the oil peak in our country which is far behind us ought to make it clear to you, that it will occur. The only question is exactly when. The trend in declining discoveries which I have already shown you, certainly suggests that that time is not far off."

                        Your Malthusian doom and gloom aside, I do not fear this artifiical "peak" in the least, even if it is real. It will be followed by a new "peak" of less easy oil which will last for decades more at least. Should it be necessary, it will be followed by natural transitions into other energy sources over time. No world wide exponential crash will occur as this transition occurs, just like none occurred in the past transitions. However my money is betting that the oil age has just begun and no where near peaking any time soon.

        • If the available supply is exaggerated then "nearing-depletion fears" pressure is largely relieved and not present for pushing hard with developing alternative energy sources and really cinching down on waste with conservation measures.

          In other words, if the same old same old can proceed as per usual then the political will is lacking for disturbing the status quo and corporate profits via either investment in developing technologies or via changing peoples' behaviors from squandering toward efficiency.

          We see this same push here in Alaska with regard to opening the petroleum reserves under the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Alaska's delegation to D.C. is trying to pass laws automatically opening ANWR for oil extraction if the price of il reaches $120/barrel and/or as a "national defense emergency measure." If the supply expands then pressure for conservation and developing sustainable systems is delayed, being put off by a decade or two. Drilling in ANWR would not damage the environment or wildlife if done correctly (I have lived there for years and am a biologist- oil development can actually be done in ways that are not a problem for the landscape and critters, though in places like the Amazon corporations such as Chevron have done it in the most polluting and horrendous cheap-assed ways possible). It would be short-sighted and foolish to drill in ANWR, however, as well as anywhere else we can hold off and avoid doing so.

          Regardless of the extent of oil reserves in Saudia Arabia, ANWR, or elsewhere these petrochemicals people are so fuelishly burning up in vehicles and power plants continue to contribute to climate change. The millions of years required to produce petroleum means once it is gone, that's it. No more. Finished. Our children, grandchildren, and so on will someday desperately need those precious chemical feedstocks for the production of lubricants, plastics, medicines, and all manner of organic chemicals (from inks and paints artists use to microelectronics components). To burn this irreplaceable resource up in vehicles is the ultimate in sheer stupidity, selfishness, and folly -especially given the melting glaciers and icecaps, rising sealevel, and increased intensity in severe storms the gases released produce.
          • Unsu...
             
            Your post is difficult to read and seems self refuting at times. As you come to completion it becomes obvious you are a major believer in junk science myths such as global warming etc..

            "Regardless of the extent of oil reserves in Saudia Arabia, ANWR, or elsewhere these petrochemicals people are so fuelishly burning up in vehicles and power plants continue to contribute to climate change"

            I believe this is the real issue for many on this forum. It is not that we are in any danger of "running out". It is that many foolishly feel that cars are evil polluters and we would be better off back in the horse and buggy days. No, they dumped poop on the ground which produces methane which also damages the ozone and contributes to global warming. So much nonsense.
    • Unsu...
       
      apparently Exxon officials have reason to believe them.
      • Exxon has the oppertunity to jump in bed with the largest oil extractor in the world, is that so cryptic?
        • B
          B
          offline 113
          <--How do we know they have exaggerated since we have no baseline to judge? >

          We do have a baseline to judge. Gadwar uses saltwater injection to maximize the output. The mix being pumped out is now approaching 50% oil saltwater. The field is reaching it's peak. There is no other field as large on the horizon. None. We are the people doing the research and educating ourself. You are the one that is throwing insults around like a petulant child.
          • Unsu...
             
            Even Simmons does not argue that the Saudi's are running out of oil. His arguement is that we have no way to know, therefore they "could" be running out:

            "However, Simmons' argument is not that Saudi Arabia is running out of oil, but rather that there is no way of being confident that Saudi Arabia is not running out of oil, because producers do not reveal much about how they have calculated reserves, because predictions like those of Saleri and Baqri have been proven wrong in the past, independent surveys have not been reliable, and there have not been major oil discoveries in practically for years. Simmons argues for greater transparency on the part of oil producers, better financial management of oil prices to prevent "panics" and development of alternative energy sources "just in case. "

            www.mideastweb.org/log/arch...00203.htm

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